Curse

Whisper Evenstar · Mar 20, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

/notsigned

lootscaling is better for the casual player and it should stay in place after the rtm policy (gg on that anet - lets hope it makes a big difference). it lets people make more money by just playing the game. if you want to play in easy (normal) mode, then you won't make as much money, but with all the high powered skills available these days, why should anyone play in easy (normal) mode unless they are trying to speed through the game?

Gun Pierson · Mar 20, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

The main reason why I signed is that it would mean more fun to me, but in terms of cash it actually doesn't really matter. Before LS I farmed trolls and stuff and duo UW for ectos. Now I do DoA HM runs or still duo UW with my buddy. I can still make the money I need. But I sincerely think that for the most players it's difficult to get some cash, unless you're experienced.

Yesterday I vanquished some areas and got one crappy gold, it is what it is, but it would be nice to get some more crapp.

And about Anet: I don't think they will remove LS to be honest. Their point will be that certain players (farmers) would make ten times more money as a 'normal' player. So it would be imba. But at this point, experienced players are still making 10 times that money. I know I do but if Anet thinks they fixed this...whatever guys, you're in charge.

Another point they will make is that the system is not intended to support more than 1000k in your storage. I know we all stock up some more on mules or in ecto form etc. but I think Anet likes the current economy.

tmakinen · Mar 20, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

all I see is modded caster stuff. Don't see any swords/axes/daggers/hammers/scythes/spears modded at all.

I stand corrected. I've been playing mostly casters and never even noticed that martial arts professions don't get their collector stuff with all the bells and whistles like casters do. That is actually an odd discrepancy, since even all the preorder bonus weapons are fully modded regardless of type.

However, Factions, NF and GW:EN all grant you one fully modded item of your choice per character that completes the storyline, and you can easily beat the game with what you scavenge on the way.

Angelic Upstart · Mar 20, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

LS is a nice way to inhibit the hardcore farmers but not affect regular gameplay. Too many people just don't understand this.

If people want to PvP, TA, HA, GvG, PvE, let them, stop trying to dictate how people should play the game, if you cant be arsed to farm or whatever dont, but dont knock the people that enjoy it. Why do 'hardcore' farmers need inhibiting anyway, do the actions of other people in this game piss you off that much? Jesus you need to chill a little.

Kattar · Mar 20, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Why do 'hardcore' farmers need inhibiting anyway, do the actions of other people in this game piss you off that much? Jesus you need to chill a little.

No, the sh*t economy and the widening gap between haves and have not is what pisses people off.

Angelic Upstart · Mar 20, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Bah to the whiners who want loot scaling removed. You get more than enough money through normal play to get what you need. Hell, not including the white dye I found, I made a bit over 5k after expenses just doing Sanctum Cay (twice since I overaggroed during the first try) and farting around in Prophet's Path and the Salt Flats collecting minotaur horns & jade mandibles (Krytan's butt-ugly, but it'll hold me 'til Drok's) and opening Augury Rock, Heroes' Audience and Seeker's Passage.

Frankly, I say keep loot scaling in. Those of us who don't care about solo farming get more than enough gold to get what we need, and those who want more will go and do what ANet obviously wants you to do: find a group and be social.

And maybe if ANet sticks to its guns on this it'll help drive away the weirdos who think that way you tell how good the economy is is by how many 0's they can tack onto the end of the prices of the things they want to sell.

You are so far off the mark it is unbelievable, have you not read any of this thread ?

Angelic Upstart · Mar 20, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

The economy has been shit since LS was adopted into the game, it used to be easy to farm for materials and salvage all the crap purples / whites, by doing this you could make cash a lot more easily than after LS.

The argument for rares, materials , greens is invalid ,as Anet introduced a hotfix pdq when they realised how badly the original loot nerf had bolloxed up the economy.

How the hell will more white and purples dropping affect the economy in a bad way ?
The rich just got richer with LS and the poor newer players got shafted.
This thread is turning into a pro farm v antifarm issue and that is not the point really.

Sleeper Service · Mar 20, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart

The economy has been shit since LS was adopted into the game, it used to be easy to farm for materials and salvage all the crap purples / whites, by doing this you could make cash a lot more easily than after LS.

The argument for rares, materials , greens is invalid ,as Anet introduced a hotfix pdq when they realised how badly the original loot nerf had bolloxed up the economy.

How the hell will more white and purples dropping affect the economy in a bad way ?
The rich just got richer with LS and the poor newer players got shafted.
This thread is turning into a pro farm v antifarm issue and that is not the point really.

And the "economy" wasnt shit before LS? no the economy was WORSE before LS but people seem to think that because they had more zeros in their account that it meant something.

It DIDNT. Money had proportionally LESS value and the gap between rich and poor players wasn't a gap...it was a freaking abyssal CHASM (with flesh eating rabid monsters at the bottom).

but carry on people you seem to have found out the miracle cure for the worlds monetary problems after all.

just print more money! -.-

EmptySkull · Mar 20, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

/not signed.

Although when I farm I would love to get more cash I think it would be a mistake to end lootscaling. It would widen the gap between the rich and poor and cause inflation. Maybe add some more items to the exempt list. But as of right now you can get plenty of money playing the game. Granted this is coming from someone who is already well off in the realm of Tyria. But any new player wouldn't know how, what and where to farm anyway. They may not even care to in the beginning. I played for months before I started to look into farming. When a person starts to play all they care about is advancing and enjoying the story. I know there may be some exceptions to this. But for the most part the new player will move along in the story oblivious that there is any lootscaling.

I hope that with the new interventions implemented against the botter/s that it will cause a steeper rise in the value of a gold coin. Which will give everyone a boost in the economic aspect in the game.

I don't see them removing it though. One of the reasons I seen Gaile say is it is unfair for 1 person to get 8 people's drops just buy going solo. So don't expect it ending anytime soon.

I would like to see an end to farming code, if there is any.

zwei2stein · Mar 20, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmptySkull

/not signed.

Although when I farm I would love to get more cash I think it would be a mistake to end lootscaling. It would widen the gap between the rich and poor and cause inflation. Maybe add some more items to the exempt list. But as of right now you can get plenty of money playing the game. Granted this is coming from someone who is already well off in the realm of Tyria. But any new player wouldn't know how, what and where to farm anyway. They may not even care to in the beginning. I played for months before I started to look into farming. When a person starts to play all they care about is advancing and enjoying the story. I know there may be some exceptions to this. But for the most part the new player will move along in the story oblivious that there is any lootscaling.

I hope that with the new interventions implemented against the botter/s that it will cause a steeper rise in the value of a gold coin. Which will give everyone a boost in the economic aspect in the game.

I don't see them removing it though. One of the reasons I seen Gaile say is it is unfair for 1 person to get 8 people's drops just buy going solo. So don't expect it ending anytime soon.

I would like to see an end to farming code, if there is any.

One person getting drops for 8 people is fair - they don't take drops away from 7 other people or anything and everyone has option to do so.

Anyway, i don't really care about LS, i only wish they removed collectable drops from scaled list for obvious reasons (collectors are there to give people easy access to decent items, ffs!)

creelie · Mar 20, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Earlier I challenged people to name one single thing that casual players NEED that is farther out of their reach with LS. Nobody said anything, but I have one that I had forgotten about.

Skills. After the first few, skills cost 1k each. And 1k is a lot more money with LS than without LS. I reached UAS a long time ago, and I had forgotten how difficult and demoralizing it is to try and put together a new build when you can't even scrape together 8k, until I was trying to help a guildie with a 600/smite build.

LS does not affect the supply of anything worth selling to an entity other than a merchant. LS has made the prices of all those things drop by reducing the amount of new gold being created at the merchants. Most of the people in this thread are whining that LS puts bling farther out of their reach but in fact it brings bling closer. Removing LS would cause massive inflation, prices of everything would skyrocket back to pre-LS levels, and Guru's flood of bitter tears would have a slightly different flavor.

HOWEVER, LS makes it harder to obtain skills because skills have not changed in price. If a person has just one or two builds on one or two characters, this is not too big a deal, but as they explore more of the game they quickly run up against a wall. They earn money more slowly than they discover new skill combinations they want to try. And there is no way to get money that is not convoluted and chancy (the simplest is running, with a learning curve and a risk of leeches). Hero skill trainers help a little, but not enough.

This is the only way I can think of that LS genuinely hurts casual players, but it's enough. As much as I hate throwing my lot in with muddy-headed crybabies, as much as I know I would see less variety in characters as bling rocketed farther out of reach, LS does actually prevent good players from becoming better players by making large numbers of skill unlocks prohibitively expensive for PvE characters.

So . . . I'm changing to /signed. Not for bling, but for skills.

Savio · Mar 20, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Just because everyone has the ability to farm doesn't make it fair. It means that everyone who isn't farming and isn't rich has to farm to get any significant amount of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

I reached UAS a long time ago, and I had forgotten how difficult and demoralizing it is to try and put together a new build when you can't even scrape together 8k, until I was trying to help a guildie with a 600/smite build.

If I'm dicking around a mission or area, I can make at least 2k an hour, more if I actually care about making money at all. It's not hard to buy skills.

Additionally the removal of loot scaling doesn't help actual casual players, most don't farm. Farmers like to think of themselves as casual players for some reason.

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Just because everyone has the ability to farm doesn't make it fair. It means that everyone who isn't farming and isn't rich has to farm to get any significant amount of money.

If I'm dicking around a mission or area, I can make at least 2k an hour, more if I actually care about making money at all. It's not hard to buy skills.

Additionally the removal of loot scaling doesn't help actual casual players, most don't farm. Farmers like to think of themselves as casual players for some reason.

It is fair because everyone has the option to farm. Your logic is the same as saying HA isnt fair because everyone that isnt doing it isnt getting fame points and bambi emotes.

All casual players have the option of whether or not they want to farm. Believe it or not, a lot of them will start farming once they learn how to. Just because you dont doesnt mean that you represent casual players, you represent lazy players that cant be bothered to do anything in the game for themselves.

Prices going up on rare skin high end weapons wouldnt hurt casual players at all because you CAN complete each game easilly with unmodded non max weapons and pick up the max modded end game greens, on top of which you can just use the cheapest max armor.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

People Pls pay attention that the removal of loot scaling is not only to benefit farmers. People who play the game normally with 8/8 will reap benefits too.
That's all because of the "IDS" code. (Insta Death Scaling).

Lootscaling effects all of us at all times,even in a full team. I don't care much if they would keep the LS in HM, but pls get rid of the "IDS".

Savio · Mar 20, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

It is fair because everyone has the option to farm. Your logic is the same as saying HA isnt fair because everyone that isnt doing it isnt getting fame points and bambi emotes.

Fame is a reward specifically assigned to HA. Gold is not a reward specifically assigned to farming. The PvP equivalent would be giving excessive Balthazar faction gain to Zaishen Challenge.

Increasing the amount of money farmers make doesn't help casual players; if you wanted to help the casual crowd, you'd increase the amount of gold you get from everything, or at least from missions and quests. Sure there'd be inflation, but at least all the casual players could more easily afford the essentials.

But no, you want gold from farming to go up so you can feel good about yourself. Who gives a damn about everyone else playing, they should have to go farm like you if they want gold. Your logic that "nobody needs gold, but I want more gold for my own enjoyment" has some flaws.

Jeremy Untouchable · Mar 20, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

/signed remove it, i loved 55ing in the old days....Big Part of GW died with that update.

Angelic Upstart · Mar 20, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

And the "economy" wasnt shit before LS? no the economy was WORSE before LS but people seem to think that because they had more zeros in their account that it meant something.

It DIDNT. Money had proportionally LESS value and the gap between rich and poor players wasn't a gap...it was a freaking abyssal CHASM (with flesh eating rabid monsters at the bottom).

but carry on people you seem to have found out the miracle cure for the worlds monetary problems after all.

just print more money! -.-

When i started playing the game back in 2005 the economy issue didnt bother me as a new player i was too busy exploring and trying to beat the game.

However when i had to raise the breeze for my first set of 15k armour, it was only then i realised how poverty stricken i was.

My main beef about lootscaling was and still is, the fact that the drop rate for the more common drops was nerfed, and the ability of any player who needed money for skills dyes armour etc, was reduced across the board, overnight, this hit the newer players hard.

The economy may well have been shit then , but i dont recall anyone bitching half as much as they are now about it.
Anet should seriously consider getting shot of it, and while they are at it bring back the frozen chest and lost strong box...good times

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Increasing the amount of money farmers make doesn't help casual players; if you wanted to help the casual crowd, you'd increase the amount of gold you get from everything, or at least from missions and quests. Sure there'd be inflation, but at least all the casual players could more easily afford the essentials.

But no, you want gold from farming to go up so you can feel good about
yourself. Who gives a damn about everyone else playing, they should have to go farm like you if they want gold. Your logic that "nobody needs gold, but I want more gold for my own enjoyment" has some flaws.

Remove LS + IDS and everybody will have more money to spend, due to more drops. If you really want the vanity stuff, farming for gold now is easier to do again.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++

I Still don't get why all this discussion about farming is still here. Before LS nobody had problems with farming. Nowadays everybody points the finger and tells them to vanquish / dungeon / bear doa, etc.

If they ever remove LS + IDS:
a) People who normal play (missions, vanquish, elite-missions, hm, etc. ) will get more drops thus more money.

b) People have the option to farm and get some instant cash. (Instead of killing mobs, after mobs and only earning less then 1K).

c) The High end market will see a increase, but not as much as people would think. Supply + demand. And there's a lot of supply.

D) The lower end market with semi-rare skins but still req 9 will floorish a bit again. Since money is easier to come by, why not get that nice skin for your hero. Try selling stuff nowadays on ventari everything what isn't perfect is merched, and good semi rare skins are sold dirt cheap.(And people still don't buy the item, because they have less to spend >.>)

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Just a random remark I need to get off my chest:

I can't really imagine how some people posting here about how little gold they make, play the game. Myself, I can't seem to make less than 5k in 2 hours worth of 8 people play, ever. Spending a night (3-4 hours tops) playing with guildies, just helping each other do missions, or dungeons or whatever, I rarely end up with less than +10k in my storage.

Selling a full inventory alone is an easy 2.5k, each and every time, and that's without accounting for special finds like runes and materials, which I tend to store until I have a spare moment to make up my mind about them.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Just a random remark I need to get off my chest:

I can't really imagine how some people posting here about how little gold they make, play the game. Myself, I can't seem to make less than 5k in 2 hours worth of 8 people play, ever. Spending a night (3-4 hours tops) playing with guildies, just helping each other do missions, or dungeons or whatever, I rarely end up with less than +10k in my storage.

Selling a full inventory alone is an easy 2.5k, each and every time, and that's without accounting for special finds like runes and materials, which I tend to store until I have a spare moment to make up my mind about them.

STOP playing the "play the game" card all the time already. Pls let people play the game how they want to ehm kay.

Myself I have 10 Titles on my Ele, 7 on my warrior & LS on my paragon. Then I have 5 more dif chars. I got bored with HM vanquishes,Missions & Title Grinding. I now want to focus on getting some of my chars some nice 15K armor. How do earn money for it? By fastest means possible, thus farming. Farming is not a crime!

Let's say I want to have another fow armor, what would be options to attain it?
1) Do bear runs in doa and sell ambraces. (You can't do this whenever you like because it's pug depended).
2) Hope to get a lucky rare drop and sell it for a good sum of money
3) Farm ecto's + shards
How many fow + uw Clearances would it take to get both 105 or 120 materials?
Hell yes it would take a lot longer then farming it.
Quit judging people on farming. /end anti-farmers rant.

It's certainly not true that farming or doing vanquish / elite-missions / doa isn't profitable. Nobody is saying that. But without LS it would be even more profitable for both normal play + farming.

LS + IDS were set in motion vs Botters. If practically no botters are there ,why do we need to limit our income?